[Peregrinus]: Erm... pardon me?

[Goldice]: well america obviously knows about the draft, so how did america find out?

[Peregrinus]: Well, it was a bit of an issue in the last election. I mean, it's not like nobody talks about it at all, jut not very much.

[Goldice]: oh i see. thats all i was asking

[Peregrinus]: gotcha

[Goldice]: sorry if ive been snappy im tired

[Peregrinus]: nah, no offense taken.

[Goldice]: good. wow i cant believe how intellectual ive been. i must get more sleep. intellect isnt good for me

[Peregrinus]: heh, I see...

[Goldice]: ill come back when im feeling thicker

[earthkynd]: monday i'm going to demonstate aginst bush in brussels, he's coming to belgium!!

[Goldice]: throw sprouts at him. sorry my bad humour

[Peregrinus]: Gah... wish I could be there. I would love to protest Bush, and I adore Belgium.

[nokaredes]: well, 9/11 was a disaster, it was fast...the draft is gradual, and most people wouldn't think it was as important.

[nokaredes]: and we heard about it because the Defense Dept. put out a notice...it's been deleted, somehow, though.

[nokaredes]: go to http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Military_draft_102403.htm for some information, if you want...

[Peace_Turtles]: Thats sad to read....I cant believe it...holly shit!

[Black_Dragon_123]: There ain't gonna be a draft.... and I can't be drafted anyway. ADHD. Mental Disorder! ^^

[kduncan]: eh.. not necessarily, black_dragon_123. In this draft (which is NOT like the Viet Name era draft) EVERYONE within the specified age range gets to serve. Theoretically, unless you're institutionalised for ADHD, you're good to go; if you're good enough to go to school or hold any kind of a job.. you're good enough to serve.

[Peace_Turtles]: i cant fucking believe it....

[kduncan]: Lest anyone think that H.R. 163 was entirely a Republican initiaitive.. you should know that it was sponsored by Democrat Charles Rangel of New York, and the only two votes in support of this bill (this time around) were by Democrats.

[BarleySinger]: the draft applies to more than just millitary service with a gun. You can be forced to work for somplace like"Homeland Security" or for some company, making cluster bombs to drop on the population of ... well ... anyone with oil. Realisticaly, at the current rate they are going through soldiers in the Gulf, they will have no choice but to either insigate a draft, or pull out of Iraq. Now with all that oil there how likely do you think it is that the "enron president" will leave? 

[Goldice]: id like to think they will pull out rather than waste more inocent lives but i really cant see that happening. maybe they should bush go into war, it might make him think differently... just maybe

[Peregrinus]: Has anyone here read Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein?

[kduncan]: What BarleySinger's referring to are the people who may not actually see "active combat duty" as a result of the draft because they are conscientious objectors either due to religious beliefs or purely personal beliefs against killing and/or war in general. These people will still have to serve, and a likely area to have these people serve will be the rather grey area we refer to as "Homeland Security".

[kduncan]: I haven't read it, Peregrinus. I saw the movie and really liked it. I've been told that the movie "no way no how" does the book justice though.. so I should probably just up and read the book.

[Peace_Turtles]: I saw the movie....whats that got to do with hating bush?

[nokaredes]: I won't have to go to Iraq, anyway...but "Homeland Security" doesn't sound so bad.

[Peregrinus]: The book was a commentary on a social system that employed a draft like the one being talkied about now. It was quite interesting.

[Lord Kügenheim]: Hey anyone fancy going and making a mass invasion of the Bush Supporters Association? This will include going there and debating about what we talk about here. Anyone who decides to spam them however, i'll shoost you myself...

[nokaredes]: What's the difference between invading and spamming?

[Lord Kügenheim]: not much... invading just sounds cooler...

[nokaredes]: uh huh...can we get in trouble for 'invading' the Pro-Bush wiki?

[Lord Kügenheim]: not really, we can just be friendly and go en mass for talking to them and challenging their views.

[nokaredes]: ah...then I'm in!!

[Lord Kügenheim]: they will probably see it as an invasion though. but i dont really mind, i suppose it will be our first heated discussion held between us. i just hope the heads dont see it as an attack or something... if they do then there n00bs... ^^

[Peregrinus]: See... I would be in favor of that idea... if it weren't for this wiki having "hate" in the name. That might make them a tad less than inclined to debate with anyone from here.

[nokaredes]: It says on the wiki 'true arguments are not allowed'...

[Lord Kügenheim]: ahh the name is just a relic from another era really. i mean this place was designed to be a "we hate prez bush woo" place and not the debating capital it is now. i mean im not complaining, i'm proud how its turned out. Sorta one of the reasons for the "we hate you mr president" slogan.

[nokaredes]: riiiiight...there are a lot of those "we hate prez bush woo" places here.

[Peregrinus]: Yeah, I get that, but I'm not sure they will.

[Lord Kügenheim]: well we're only going to talk. if they attack us then it sucks for them.

[Peace_Turtles]: Peace dose not come form force but from understanding...you cant force peace ppl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Kügenheim]: Well you can try. just like you can try surviving shooting yourself. dont try it though...

[earthkynd]: today and yesterday I demonstrated with a few thousand others against bush in brussels, belgium

[Lord Kügenheim]: ahh was that in the EU meeting by any chance?

[nokaredes]: hey, does anyone who has the password to this wiki know the secret to uQt ? it makes copying the banner so much easier...

[Lord Kügenheim]: i dont think so no... i dont even know what that is...

[nokaredes]: alright...I can't show you in the comments, it doesn't ever want to work, but I fixed it over on Neighbourhood Watch...you can also find it on one of the official pages...somewhere...

[nokaredes]: Pseudo HTML pro, just look for viewable tags.

[Peace_Turtles]: Man...whats has humanity come to?

[djjenna]: how can i join? it says i need a password

[Goldice]: no you need to message me or LK. i'll add you

[JAAN]: Dont u think we're being a bit to hastey here. i for one like bush .. on a first date

[Goldice]: tell us more about your views?

[Stray Kitty]: I don't think anyone here hates Bush, because, according to my English teacher, to truly hate someone you have to have loved them at one point. And I don't think that anyone here has ever loved Bush.

[nokaredes]: Somebody messed up the poll!

[nokaredes]: and gay as an insult is lame.

[nokaredes]: Too bad we can't see who did that...

[Dil*]: I think you would have to hate someone to wish for their untimely demise as some of the people here do.

[Stray Kitty]: I don't want Bush to die. I just want him and his evil minions out of office.

[nokaredes]: I want that, but I wouldn't mind if he died...

[Stray Kitty]: No but then he would get support. You know like Ronald Reagan all over again.

[Rondel]: As for the current poll, define "affected by" -- I'm out of the age range (and disabled), as is my husband... ...but I have nieces and nephews who are of an age to be inducted, though (thank goodness) my own daughter is not yet of draftable age, and should no longer be an American citizen by the time she is. How could a person *not* be "affected" by a society-wide induction of everyone in a 10-year age bracket???

[nokaredes]: Exactly.

[Lord Kügenheim]: its sorta are you personally going to be affected. like are you going to get drafted. but i guess i'll change to say that.

[bluefarie]: geeze there's a lot of writing what's up??

[Peace_Turtles]: Talking about Bush dieing...*smiles at the thought*

[The Messiah]: Bush is as gay as Ronald MacDonald,,,

[Goldice]: yes ronald macdonald loves the robber

[Kayne]: I don't think he is gay though.

[bobbina]: who?

[Kayne]: Bush.

[bobbina]: oh rite. well he certainly looks gay! lol

[Kayne]: Euhm, no?

[bluefarie]: um, no what?

[Stray Kitty]: If Bush is, indeed, gay, I highly doubt that he would have suggested that Constitutional ammendment. And did you here what he just did? He and his Administration passed a bill that limits the amount a citizen can sue a corperate company for damages.

[Peace_Turtles]: What a basterd....

[bobbina]: okaydokey

[Goldice]: but i dont think his sexuality has got anything to do with it

[kduncan]: He may not be gay, but he sure is in bed with corporate America.

[gratze]: if i get drafted(if a draft is even stated) i will gladly go and fight for my country...you people make me sick! the only reason youre against Bush is because you have noone else to blame your unimportant problems on; so, now you know how i feel, btw someone will come back at this statement with a "NO, i hate Bush because hes a stupid asshole" then you, liberal pieces of horse shit, are a trend follower. HEY! lets give our well worked money to this bum over here to buy booze, or better yet the drug dealer who chose not to get a job. This is called WELFARE! Its a good idea isnt it? as long as its not YOU giving them money.

[Kayne]: Bush is the person that freed Iraq. Thank you mister Bush. Now get the fuck out of there. Same with Afghanistan. And isn't Bush the person that is making sure American economu is going down? Not that I care, I dislike American hypocrycy. But I tend to feel sorry for people who are threated unfairly in a land that says that it is "democratic".

[Maurer's conclusions]: Just because you hate Bush doesn't make you a liberal. You're the trend follower, blinded by and living off of fox news and all of the other brainwashing shit like a young, feeble, pathetic bird eating regurgitated worms.

[Peregrinus]: You know, that's not how the welfare system is really set up... admitedly, there are flaws, but the idea isn't handouts. But regardless, why don't you calm down a little and actually talk for a moment about why you think the way you do, and we can--well, I can't vouch for the rest of the people who post on this wiki--but I can calmly give you the reasons I believe what I do.

[Kayne]: He isn't a trend follower. The trend would be "hating Bush". He could be a "counter trend follower". But I think the trend is to have an opinion about Bush. Wether it is pro or against.

[nokaredes]: Not all of us Bush-haters are liberal...and I would much rather my money go to a library, or to special-needs schoolchildren (programs he's cut funding for) than the random bum on the street.

[bluefarie]: umm, whatever...i think ur the 1 whose following every1 else...i most ppl r ignorant 2 what bush is doing 2 ur country...

[Peregrinus]: besides, let us examine the word "liberal" for a moment. Seriously, look it up in the dictionary. It's not a bad thing. Jesus himself was very liberal, and he seems to be popular with our conservative population. I guess my point is, why are we all talking about our adversaries like they're lesser forms of life? what happened to being reasonable and tolerating others and their opinions?

[nokaredes]: Yes. That is what I don't understand. Arguing will get us nowhere, because few people who feel strongly enough about the subject to join a wiki would probably not change their views.

[kduncan]: Stairway2heaven: "if i get drafted(if a draft is even stated) i will gladly go and fight for my country...you people make me sick!" So, tell us, Stairway2heaven, how is invading a foreign country "fighting for your country"? You should really read the lastest article in Newsweek regarding what has happened to women's rights in Iraq since Hussein was deposed by the US. In fact, I'll post a link for you, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7038038/site/newsweek/ Can you tell me what we're fighting for in Iraq? And remember, Bush has already said they had no Weapons of Mass Destruction. Supposedly we're fighting for the liberation of the Iraqi people.. so what the hell is going on that women have LESS

[kduncan]: freedom and fewer rights than they did before??? And let's take a look at the great job Bush has done in Afghanistan, the latest reports tell us that opium production.. which had been nearly eliminated under Taliban rule.. is now more than 60 percent of their gross national product.

[kduncan]: Stairway2heaven: "the only reason youre against Bush is because you have no one else to blame your unimportant problems on" Oh please, no one is blaming Bush for their personal problems. People blame him for the poor state of the American economy; the war in Iraq; the war in Afghanistan; the big arse tax breaks given to corporations; the taking away of rights from American citizens; the total trashing of our Constitution; the taking away of benefits that Americans have enjoyed and relied on for decades; the totally ridiculous "no child left behind" programs which left slews of children behind on Texas, and which is now promising to do the same nationwide.. need I go on?

[Stray Kitty]: You know I was doing a history assignment not too long ago and it mentioned things like 'hotheads in congress all for it', 'no clar exit strategy' 'battles that weren't sopposed to take place' and believe it or not they weren't talking about Bush and Terror they were refferring to Madison and 1812. That was actually the begging of the Republican party. Oh, and did I mention the hotheaded congressmen who were for the war, their fathers had signed the declaration of Independence orr something like that. That was just about 200 years ago and (sadly) the Republican Party has not improved. They still like biulding the military, trade, and wars.

[kduncan]: Stairway2heaven: "HEY! lets give our well worked money to this bum over here to buy booze, or better yet the drug dealer who chose not to get a job. This is called WELFARE! Its a good idea isnt it? as long as its not YOU giving them money." No, what you're describing is not called welfare, but if that's how you'd prefer to spend your money.. well then go for it.

[Stray Kitty]: Actually Welfare isn't a very good thing. You are giving people money. But you can't just not help them. You have to find out why they are on welfare in the first place. Maybe it's because they can't find a job ot because they dropped out of high school. Or if the didn't go to college. This means we haveto stop the problem at its source. Maybe with better schools (Bush has taken AWAY founding for them)

[nokaredes]: and libraries, which discourages people to go in because they start charging for printing and shortening the time you are allowed to check books out...etc.

[kduncan]: MsKittyCat, welfare can be a very good thing if it does what it's supposed to do: help people out of a difficult situation. Some women can only get out of abusive relationships with the help of welfare. I know this for a fact: my mother was married to an abusive man. The only reason she ultimately left him was her fear that he was going to turn his aggression toward their children, ie: me, my sister, and my brother. The only way for her to leave, and perhaps save the lives of herself and her children..was to leave. There is no way she could have gotten out of that relationship without the temporary help of the government.

[kduncan]: With an eighth grade education (no, she wasn't pregnant when she got married) where was she going to get a job? She worked as a waitress. In fact, she worked three jobs waitressing, but it still wasn't enough to support three children.. and there were no medical benefits. Ultimately she did get her GED and go to college, all of her children also went to college as well, and are now paying taxes in the US to help support this country. We're not on drugs, we're not alcoholics sleeping on the street corner.. but we might have ended up doing exactly that if NOT for welfare. You want another example? Look at Bill Clinton (yes, that Bill Clinton), he was also raised by a single mother on welfare.

[kduncan]: Let me ask the people who think welfare is such a bad thing another question: With more and more US corporations finding huge savings by moving operations out of the US (not to mention HUGE tax savings), what would your family do if suddenly the money maker in your family found him or herself without a source of income? With disability and workman's compensation laws being changed to favour corporations over individuals, what recourse would your family have if suddenly the money maker in your family was seriously injured on or off the job and couldn't work for a few weeks or months? With insurance companies cutting benefits, what would your family do if the main money maker came down with

[kduncan]: a serious injury or illness, couldn't work, and now had to pay fifteen to twenty thousand dollars for a lengthy hospital stay? You folks who think everyone is always healthy and that everyone can always support themselves if they'd just get off their lazy butts and apply themselves need to take your rose coloured glasses off and take your heads out of the sand, the next person standing there with a hand out saying, "Look, all I need is a little help to get back on my feet." could be you.

[Rondel]: While we're on the subject of welfare, anyone here ever had to deal with disability issues in the US? I have -- and while you're going through a disability pension application form that may easily take over a year and a half to process, welfare is the ONLY social safety net left to keep you from becoming a public health hazard by dying in the street, leaving a nasty inconvenient rotting corpse to pollute your nice clean (ha!) water table. I get so *DAMNED* tired of people who think that welfare is always the result of personal choice-related issues. Or do you believe that "workhouses" are the answer, as did Dickens' Scrooge, when asked these questions?

[Rondel]: My personal belief is that the BEST way to avoid high disability rates (and consequent costs) is to have a medical system which recognizes that it costs the state less to federalize drug purchases, and provide people with relatively low-cost preventative health care, than it does to have the work force impacted by wide-spread preventable health problems leading to disability, loss of productivity, and loss of experienced workers (see also knowledge carriers, people with a valuable resource in their heads, a resource which will take years of training and experience to replace, and whose lack will badly impact the industries dependent upon these skilled and knowledgeable workers).

[Rondel]: But, find me a "pro-business, anti-welfare" Republican Bush-supporter who recognizes that -- even as we enter the "Information Age", and "Knowledge Management" becomes one of businesses' buzzwords, there seems to be little to no acknowledgement that it's simple good resource management to keep people capable of being productive, and not lose their knowledge of the industry for want of a few extra dollars for a high-blood-pressure pill (to take a simple and common example).

[Stray Kitty]: Welfare is a good thing. But it also has bad points. Like everything. It's supposed to help people out of a bad situation. And it does for the most part. It fixes problems. Bat wouldn't it be a lot nicer if those problems had never occurred in the first place. And I don't see Bush doing anything to fix it at it's source. All he does is lose money. He started with a surplus and look at the deficit now. One of my Republican friends told me "that Bush had to fix a lot of Clinton's problems" I see nothing that BUsh fixed. Though I see a lot of things that he made worse. THe war on "Terror", the ecomnomy, the surplus that's now a dewficit. HE also botched up 9/11.

[Peregrinus]: This is why I keep saying that so many of our problems and issues today are just symptoms of a greater disease. We keep trying to make the symptoms go away, but we don't even bother to look for a cure to the disease. It's like frantically feeding a dying man asprin, and wondering why he's not getting better.

[Stray Kitty]: We had international support and in months Bush managed to lose all of it. Now I really miss Clinton.

[the squash]: I hate it when my friends are for Bush and when i ask them they are totally dodging my questions and when they do answer they just say "Because I'm Republican" not all republicans are for Bush so I don't see why they were so against Kerry..i mean they don't know anything about politics and they just stand by Bush's decisions no matter what decisions he makes and that gets me pissed off because when I try to tell them about all my beliefs they ignore me.

[Stray Kitty]: Yes it very annoying. Oh well. We'll have proof of Dubya's maddness when he daclares war on gays.

[nokaredes]: I saw a car of a college student the other day, and she had painted on one of the side windows with one of those glass-markers No one died when Clinton lied.

[Stray Kitty]: Yes I miss Clinton

[nokaredes]: Clinton was funny...he debated the meaning of the word 'is'.

[Stray Kitty]: cool much better than bush. who may or may not have a brain

[nokaredes]: he has a brain...sometimes Cheney's to busy to use it for him though.

[Rondel]: Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of preventative efforts, and think that one of the only reasonable functions for a government is the administration of comprehensive social systems which are part of a region's infrastructure, such as roads, education, medicine, defense, etc. Given the nature of the health reports I spend much of my time reading, I personally think that the US could enhance its productivity and reduce time lost to health damage (as well as long-term disability and its drain on the public systems) simply by using medically-justifiable environmental standards, and *enforcing* them. Instead, we ignore even the hard-headed, pragmatic, purely cost-oriented realization that

[Rondel]: easily remedied bad practises are costing us, on the corporate level as well as the civic and individual levels. Yet despite the overwhelming research demonstrating the veracity of these issues as major influences upon life and daily functioning for an enormous cross-section of the workforce (much less the population as a whole), the US response (under Bush) is to ease environmental restrictions, abstain from the Kyoto protocol, and consume 90% of the world's resources. This is not sustainable - it does not provide for the future. Isn't the creation of a business model which can support a family from one generation to the next supposed to be one of the conservatives' central focal points?

[kduncan]: I find it interesting that a great many Republicans I know (Yes, I do have Republican friends.) parted ways with their party at the voting booth this past election for the first time since joining the Republican party. The media likes to play up the "red state" "blue state" issue, but that fails to take into account that a great many people are crossing party lines to vote for other parties' candidates. We had a large number of Republicans stopping by our Green party booth at Friday Fest (a weekly downtown-wide sort of block party here where the streets are closed to vehicular traffic and there is live music, booths to sell artwork, food venders.. you get the idea) in the weeks following the

[kduncan]: presidential election to express their disatisfaction with the way the presidential election played out. We gained several former Republicans as new Green party members the first few weeks after the elections. Bush is not only drawing the ire of Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, etc.. he's starting to alienate members of his own party.

[nokaredes]: Has anyone heard of the 'Run Against Bush' campaign?

[Cina]: ...I love Bush! *runs away*

[bluefarie]: eeeewwww! geeze i hate u ppl....ur all cowards!!!

[Lord Kügenheim]: Totaly... because we have the balls to say what we think? Anything but cowardice if you ask me...

[Lord Kügenheim]:

300 Members

[Goldice]: yay. i added member 299

[Peace_Turtles]: yay!

[Dil*]: w007!!

[Goldice]: go us!!!

[bluefarie]: we should have a banner...

[Lord Kügenheim]: we should, like in the gay rights page. Im no artist unfortunately, so its upto you out there to make us one!

[bluefarie]: ooo..tht would b cool!

[Duredhel]: Uhh... I could make a banner if you want me to :)

[Goldice]: yeah go on then

[bluefarie]: ooo...yeah, please do!

[Peace_Turtles]: that would be awesome!

[kduncan]: The Bush administration has said it will not allow sales of guns to people on the US government's "Terrorist Watch List". While this may, at first glance, seem like a no-brainer, consider this: Ted Kennedy, Cat Stevens, and the Prime Minister of Canada have all had the rather dubious distinction of making it onto this list. Terrorists all? Really?

[nokaredes]: I tried to send a package from here (Maryland) to Alabama the day before yesterday. It was returned to me on the grounds of 'too many stamps'. Did I miss something? Don't you NEED stamps to put something in the mail? But no, since the terrorists have used stamps, apparently us regular citizens aren't allowed to.

[Dil*]: wtf? Paul Martin, Prime Minister of Canada a terrorist, that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Just because we didn't join bush's stupid missile defense program.

[kduncan]: _Dilandau_: "wtf? Paul Martin, Prime Minister of Canada a terrorist, that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard." Yeah, I know, but heck.. we're talking about someone referred to as "dubya" here.

[Rondel]: "too many stamps"... <smothered half-hysterical chuckles> ..."let's not sell guns to Ted Kennedy or the Canadian Prime Minister, they might be terrorists, or become terrorists, or think about becoming terrorists, or have a nightmare sometime about becoming terrorists, or might have said the word 'terrorist' at some point, or something... ...anyway, we don't like them, so we won't sell them guns. Besides, it makes so much sense for the US to make laws about whether or not it's legal to sell a gun to the Prime Minister of Canada." *snort* Is it any wonder that Tom Lehrer stopped trying to satirize these people over 20 years ago? "Some people you don't have to satirize, you just quote 'em."

[Maurer's conclusions]: Cat Stevens could be slightly understandable, because he said that he wanted Salman Rushdie to be decapitated.

[kduncan]: I think that what Cat Stevens said was not exactly to decapitate Salmon Rushdie, nor even specifially to kill him. He was instead quoting Muslim religious law regarding blasphemous statements; and I'll note here that the Christian bible also says something to the effect that blasphemers should be stoned to death. Now, if were a Christian, and was asked a question about a person who wrote something I, and most of Christianity, considered blasphemous and replied that, "The old testament says blasphemers should be stoned to death." does that mean I am personally calling for the death of that person? This is basically the nature of the statement

[kduncan]: that Cat Stevens made with regard to Salmon Rushdie. Theoretically, Stevens was put on the list because of donations to organisations that have links to organisations that support terrorism; however, Tom Ridge refused to divulge the names of those organisations. So.. let's see here.. if I make a donation to a church, and that church has a group of members that, say, go out and bomb medical clinics where abortions are done.. does that mean I have links to a terrorist organisation? Take it a step further even and suppose that the church administration itself supports the terrorism.. but without my knowledge. Am I now, by default, supportive of terrorist activities?

[Maurer's conclusions]: "My only crime was, I suppose, in being honest. I stood up and expressed my belief and I am in no way apologizing for it."

[kduncan]: Exactly.

[Dil*]: it's all hypocrisy if you ask me...wow I'm starting to say that way too much, but there isn't really another statement that comes to mind.

[bluefarie]: too many stamps...thts stupid...

[nokaredes]: yes.

[Peace_Turtles]: to many stamps?

[bluefarie]: yeah...a previous comment...

[Peace_Turtles]: i know but....to many stamps? are you serious?

[bluefarie]: yeah..

[nokaredes]: Yep. I beat the system though--I took the same package to a different post office, and had no problems. *shrugs*

[Rondel]: The ridiculous thing about all of this, to me, is that it should not require "beating the system" in order for an average person to go about their daily life in a country which is supposed to be "of the people, by the people, and for the people". You were being conscientious -- I bet you didn't want to put too little postage on the package, and risk having it returned, so you put on perhaps more than was needed. All that tells me is that you don't happen to have a postage scale, not that you should be treated as a suspected terrorist (almost certainly the reason for the change -- *I* recall the days when the post office officially said "use extra stamps if you're unsure of exact postage").

[kduncan]: hyperharmonie, did you just use a lot of satmps to make the postage required, or did you overpay the postage? If you overpaid, I can't imagine why the post office would refuse to take something that some one paid more than necessary to mail, especially considering the fact that the US postal service is operating at a deficit. If you just used alot of stamps, it's sort of like the old, "US legal tender accepted.. as long as it's not alot of pennies."

[nokaredes]: I did use a scale. I put on about 40 cents more than it said I needed, because there's no way, really, to get exactly $5.65 on a package. My mom said the reason it was probably returned was because I didn't know the postage rate and neither do foreign terrorists, which made more sense than what the woman at the post office said which was 'The terrorists, when they sent the letters laced with anthrax and stuff like that, they didn't come in to a post office to get metered postage, they used stamps.' (I'm good with quotes ^_^) It wasn't as if I was sending a package somewhere busy, or as if I hadn't dropped it off at a post office the first time...besides, if it had been a bomb or something

[nokaredes]: like that, it would've hurt someone on its way back to me.

[nokaredes]: Yes, I overpaid with a lot of stamps.

[BarleySinger]: Maybe the person at the first post office forgot to take their medication that day. Well, it does come into my paranoid mind that most post offices have security cameras, and I suspect that (like a lot of places) they keep the tapes around, which means if you pay metered postage at a post office because you cannot send your package any other way, then the USPS can trace a package back to the post office that sent it, and can probably find your (bored and impatient) face on the security tapes. That is still pretty paranoid sounding to me though.

[nokaredes]: Yea, well, my latest experience with the post office makes me understand why someone would like to blow one or two of 'em up. (and the phrase 'going postal' in the US...)

[BarleySinger]: I think "going postal" has mosre to do with the policiy the post offices have of hiring a lot of ex millitary people...which means hiring people with a high level of PTSD and a knowledge of firearms. Bad job + PTSD + firearms = bad idea

[nokaredes]: http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/6-16-03/discussion.cgi.8.html

[Goldice]: you lot, if an idiot called [hello] comes here, ignore him. he's been nothing but trouble on EP. we've even had members request that we remove them from the mebers list because of him

[Goldice]: yep.reckons he's coming to start here soon

[nokaredes]: I blocked [hello] over here just because of how he is over there...I'm surprised he's not banned (here).

[Goldice]: i know.but a 21 year acting like a school kid.its not right.in a way i feel sorry for him because hes obviously got nothing better to do

[thesuperman]: I am on EP as well...that [hello] character is nothing but trouble. he is always starting stuff and making himself seem smart. what do you think his problem is?

[Goldice]: himself?? its just so tiresome. he's like a dog with a bone

[nokaredes]: Maybe he's lying about his age...

[Lord Kügenheim]: He will get banned if he even sets foot in this place.

[Goldice]: yeah but we've realised you cant ban from wikis.telling hes banned is not enough

[thesuperman]: i'm glad someone is sticking it to him he gets on my nerves

[Goldice]: he does with all of us.he just a silly little boy who doesn't when enough is enough. gods i sounded like my mum then

[thesuperman]: we should teach him a lesson

[nokaredes]: wow...you sound like a person in the mob.

[Goldice]: yeah but he never seems to learn

[thesuperman]: he just offended me grately. can i be a member?

[Goldice]: yeah sure.what did he say?

[thesuperman]: he has been talking about me because i have a gimp leg and i cant walk that good. he met my sister over the internet and he comes over just to feel her up, thats how he knows i have a bad leg. i hate him for makeing fun of me.

[Lord Kügenheim]: I'll just report him as soon as he posts. Tell them what he has done on EP and ask the guards to warn him not to do it here. If he does then he will get propperly banned.

[thesuperman]: alright thank you for your help.

[Goldice]: if you dont mind me asking what happened to your leg?

[thesuperman]: i was hunting with my father one day and i didnt see the bear trap. it hurts just to say that

[Goldice]: ok sorry.hope you didnt mind my asking. hellos is just a pest that needs to arradicated

[thesuperman]: i agree. i dont mind telling you it is just a painful memory now. what are we going to do about hello?

[Goldice]: im not sure we can do alot but just ignore him and hope he gets bored. him and his 'friend'

[thesuperman]: who is his friend? is it that [Iron-wulf] guy becuase he messed with me 2

[Goldice]: yeah.what did he say? there doesn't seem to be a record of it on EP BHA. did it not happen there?

[nokaredes]: Something is wrong with your forum-link, by the way. I clicked it, and it said That posting is in a private forum which you are not a member of. Therefore you can't read it. Unless that was on purpose...

[thesuperman]: no. it was private messages. they are evil. i hate them

[Goldice]: shouldnt be. on EP? sm, do you mind posting those messages here? it just means we have more ammo

[thesuperman]: i deleted them as soon as i got them. they hurt so much that i couldnt keep them without crying

[Goldice]: oh ok.sorry. have you reported them?

[thesuperman]: yeah i did. but nothing happened

[Goldice]: it doesn't always.if its messages then they like to see them

[thesuperman]: o ok...i dont wnat the guards to be involved. i want to do something to them on my own

[Goldice]: ok.xx

[thesuperman]: we need to come up with something to get them back. any ideas?

[Lord Kügenheim]: Nuke them?

[thesuperman]: i am dead serious. i am sick of them messing wiht me

[Lord Kügenheim]: me too. Something needs to be done on Elfpack. I think we should all suggest that Hedda make Wikis that the owners can ban people from. You agree?